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Star Trek musings with miajesbar

"Half of The Next Generation is Riker inadvertently instituting social reform while trying to score."
-banazir

Here's proof that I do my best thinking between 02:00 and 04:00.
miajesbar and I started musing over Star Trek Enterprise, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, and The Next Generation1 topics the other night - namely:

Session Start: Sat Feb 28 02:23:59 2004



  • "Azati Prime", the latest episode of Enterprise: I haven't seen this one yet. Edit, 14:15 CST Tue 09 Feb 2004: miajesbar is going to send me her tape. (Thanks!) By all accounts, the production value and cinematography are fantastic. misjesbar also opines that it makes up for most of the shoddy plots that Enterprise has suffered from every other episode, especially in the second season.

  • The S2 finale, "The Expanse"

  • How Enterprise got so bad in Season 2 that I couldn't watch any more.
    Good episodes, IMO:

    • "Shockwave, Part II" - an engaging plot, a nice cliffhanger resolution, but just a little blah at the end

    • "Regeneration" - What can I say? I'm a sucker for Borg eps, even if they clash with previous canon a bit.


    Bad episodes, IMO:

    • "Carbon Creek" - Ugh, but this was clumsy! I don't like most of the 20th century flashback and time travel eps, and this was no exception. The only time travel episode I really liked for more than camp (cf. the Voyager episode "Future's End") was the original series episode "City on The Edge of Forever", based very loosely on the Harlan Ellison story.

    • "Stigma" - Mind meld-as-rape (with the new-and-improved, logic-free Vulcans) was a bad enough extrapolation from the ST6:TUC film; now they have to trot out meld-aftereffects-as-AIDS and trask canon with a minority of Vulcans even being capable of melding? Look, I'm all for thought-provoking social controversy episodes, but this one was so contrived it wasn't even funny.

    • "The Crossing" - I preferred the ghost ep of TNG.


    Neutral episodes, IMO:

    • "Dead Stop" - Here's one of those episodes that could have been really interesting, but instead turned into the up-and-coming young-officer-in-a-cocooon. This got old with Chekhov!

    • "A Night in Sickbay" - It was all right, just a little boring.

    • "The Communicator" - Not only is this a rehash of the pre-warp civilization episode; the other one was better.


  • Some episodes we agreed were really good fun, such as:


  • Some poignant episodes with good plots such as the Voyager eps:


  • Highly redundant themes such as the Voyager "void" motif in:

  • TNG "social reform" episodes such as:


  • Great psychological thriller episodes such as:


  • Worthwhile, triumphal epics such as:





Session Close: Sat Feb 28 03:27:57 2004

Any episodes you'd like to recommend, especially of TOS?2

1 Why not TOS? miajesbar hasn't seen much of it even in syndication. You all feel old yet? ;-)
2 Yes, I realize I have left out {Lwaxana Troi | Deanna Troi | Wesley Crusher | your favorite character}, or your favorite theme such as {Hoshi in workout clothing | Chakotay/Janeway shipperdom | Jake Sisko's coming of age | Data's quest for humanity}. That's why I'm asking for your recommendations!</code>

--
Banazîr

Comments

( 63 comments — Leave a comment )
hempknight
Mar. 11th, 2004 01:57 am (UTC)
TOS 4EVAH!
TOS is the only true Trek. The Shatner diction and the amazing overacting, Bones' I'm not a... lines, Scotty who never had enough pow'r, Kirk getting the girl every time, not caring if she was green, blue or purple. This is the stuff of legend. And Khan!!! KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!.

TNG wasn't too bad either but it wasn't about communists anymore. And as you said it was about Riker trying to score which made it remotely interesting.

Less said about DS9, the better. I mean, they weren't even on a ship!!

Voyager...ah Voyager. That series is responsible for my abandoning the entire Star Trek franchise. Not only the worst Trek ever, but one of the worst things on TV ever. Makes Mexican soaps look like a Spielberg production! All they do is talk about their feelings. Actually one half of the cast talks about their feelings while the other half emotes like they're doing toilet.

And then there is of course Enterprise. Admittedly I've never seen a single episode but I know that B&B are trying to rewrite the entire Trek lore and that's enough for me not to want to watch it. A prequel! Audience loves prequels!

Having said that, here are some of the more memorable TOS episodes:

Space Seed - KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!
The Devil in the Dark - It's life Jim! But not as we know it!
Errand of Mercy - Enter the Klingons
Amok Time - The theme by Gerald Fried when Kirk and Spock duke it out is worth the admission price alone. #tatatata-tatatata-tatata#
The Trouble With Tribbles - Headless hamsters take over Enterprise. Oh, and they grow in size and number. And grow. And grow. And grow.
The Enemy Within - You must kill us both, Spock!
Arena - Gorn!

There are many more, but I can't remember them all.

--
Danger is my middle name
gondhir
Mar. 11th, 2004 07:24 am (UTC)
Re: TOS 4EVAH!
Less said about DS9, the better. I mean, they weren't even on a ship!!
I stopped watching DS9 fairly early on. Before they got their ship (probably due to fan backlash). I did see the very last episode, mainly due to chance (*flipping through channels* "Oh, it's DS9. Oh, it's the series finale! I guess I'd better watch it..."). Seemed like it had gotten into a rather complicated story arc but I picked up on the important parts quickly enough. The whole "prophets" storyline had always bothered me though...

Never got too into Voyager. My parents liked it for some reason though so I ended up watching it.

Have never seen a single ep of Enterprise and possibly never will.
hempknight
Mar. 11th, 2004 08:48 am (UTC)
Re: TOS 4EVAH!
*flipping through channels* "Oh, it's DS9. Oh, it's the series finale! I guess I'd better watch it..."

Heh. That's how I managed to see the X-Files series finale. I stopped watching it sometime during season 5 or such. And years after the fact I find the series finale by chance. So I watch it, and after it was finished I suddenly remembered why I stopped watching it in the first place.


--
Danger is my middle name
Re: TOS 4EVAH! - gondhir - Mar. 11th, 2004 01:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
koinonia
Mar. 11th, 2004 04:29 am (UTC)
I lurved TOS..I don't remember episode names, though. If I am not to be shot and fed to the pirahna frogs, have you seen any of "Babylon 5" and what did you think, if you did?
banazir
Mar. 11th, 2004 07:41 am (UTC)
Babylon 5 and Julian May
I lurved TOS..I don't remember episode names, though.
Me neither - that's wot the foficious site is fro.

If I am not to be shot and fed to the pirahna frogs, have you seen any of "Babylon 5" and what did you think, if you did?
Babylon 5? Babylon 5?? Babylon 5?!
Weeeeeell, I kindasorta liked it.

JMS's writing is very good, though not as perfectly to my liking as Joss Whedon's. But to compare them here would ignite a massive debate thread that would last hundreds of psots... oh, how can I resist? ;-)

Seriously, I only watched about 10-12 eps of B5.
The Vorlon/Shadow storyline was good, and it reminded me of Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile and Galactic Milieu series, which is my favorite science fiction story to date, so it's lal goond.
What do you think?

One of my .sigs:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Context is everything, and getting there is half the fun.
- J. M. Straczynski

And the end and the beginning were always there,
Before the beginning and after the end,
And all is always now.
- T. S. Eliot
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
Banazir
(pirahna frogs?)
huginn
Mar. 11th, 2004 08:03 pm (UTC)
Re: Babylon 5 and Julian May
Mmm, B5. I've actually watched more B5 than any Star Trek series except for TNG. My advice to anyone who is curious: Start at the beginning and go straight through. It will be worth your time. The overarching plotlines are best when veiwed as a whole. And it is probably best to forget that B5 had a spinnoff so I won't even mention it. Err, oops.
banazir
Mar. 11th, 2004 08:50 pm (UTC)
Re: Babylon 5 and Julian May
Mmm, B5. I've actually watched more B5 than any Star Trek series except for TNG. My advice to anyone who is curious: Start at the beginning and go straight through. It will be worth your time. The overarching plotlines are best when veiwed as a whole.
So I have heard, especially that JMS "rewards the fans".
Is there a DVD to be had?

And it is probably best to forget that B5 had a spinnoff so I won't even mention it. Err, oops.
Rangers?
I thought there were 2-3 spinoffs?
Or were those just those movies?
I saw Thirdspace and it kindasorta su><0red.

--
Banazir
Re: Babylon 5 and Julian May - huginn - Mar. 12th, 2004 10:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Babylon 5 and Julian May - banazir - Mar. 13th, 2004 12:19 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Babylon 5 and Julian May - huginn - Mar. 13th, 2004 11:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Babylon 5 and Julian May - banazir - Mar. 19th, 2004 04:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
farscape - huginn - Mar. 20th, 2004 09:30 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: farscape - banazir - Mar. 20th, 2004 11:23 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: farscape - huginn - Mar. 20th, 2004 01:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: farscape - banazir - Mar. 20th, 2004 01:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: farscape - huginn - Mar. 20th, 2004 02:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: farscape - huginn - Mar. 20th, 2004 01:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: farscape - banazir - Mar. 20th, 2004 08:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
technomages - huginn - Mar. 20th, 2004 09:38 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: technomages - banazir - Mar. 20th, 2004 09:48 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: technomages - huginn - Mar. 20th, 2004 02:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
hempknight
Mar. 11th, 2004 08:51 am (UTC)
Never been able to get into it. I've seen one of the movies, can't remember right now how it's called, and it all looked decent. But the whole deal seemed too forced for me to get into.

--
Danger is my middle name
masteralida
Mar. 11th, 2004 05:29 am (UTC)
1 Why not TOS? miajesbar hasn't seen much of it even in syndication. You all feel old yet? ;-)

I still love her, even if she makes me feel like an antique.... hasn't seen much of TOS????
banazir
Mar. 11th, 2004 07:46 am (UTC)
Perspective
Why not TOS? miajesbar hasn't seen much of it even in syndication. You all feel old yet? ;-)
I still love her, even if she makes me feel like an antique.... hasn't seen much of TOS????
She is the gnu Borg!
Just fro perspective: In 1990, when "Best of Both Worlds" aired, she was a lille sproglet! (7? 8?)

--
Banazir
masteralida
Mar. 11th, 2004 07:49 am (UTC)
Re: Perspective
You're not helping, dear.
banazir
Mar. 11th, 2004 07:52 am (UTC)
Re: Perspective
You're not helping, dear.
Wlokaz, I was 16, OK? How's that? Better?

--
Banazir
(And yew were a gnubiewed!)
Re: Perspective - masteralida - Mar. 11th, 2004 07:54 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - banazir - Mar. 11th, 2004 07:56 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - masteralida - Mar. 11th, 2004 07:57 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - miajesbar - Mar. 11th, 2004 03:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
You're only as old as you feel, or something - banazir - Mar. 11th, 2004 04:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
yodge
Mar. 11th, 2004 08:05 am (UTC)
Re: Perspective
I, otoh, have seen nearly all of TOS, I think. I think it's because we used to receive a satellite channel from India that basically aired old TV shows nonstop... the same series EVERY evening, until it ended... So we'd zip through years of old telly, in a matter of months. Wild Wild West, Star Trek, Lost In Space, The Addams Family, Batman... there was also newer 'old' stuff, like M*A*S*H, Laverne and Shirley, Happy Days, Charlie's Angels, Fantasy Island... arrrgh.

-yoj
banazir
Mar. 11th, 2004 08:12 am (UTC)
Sproglets wotching nold Twek
I, otoh, have seen nearly all of TOS, I think. I think it's because we used to receive a satellite channel from India that basically aired old TV shows nonstop...
Zeee Oooooldies!

the same series EVERY evening, until it ended... So we'd zip through years of old telly, in a matter of months. Wild Wild West, Star Trek, Lost In Space, The Addams Family, Batman... there was also newer 'old' stuff, like M*A*S*H, Laverne and Shirley, Happy Days, Charlie's Angels, Fantasy Island... arrrgh.

# NUH-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh
NUH-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh
NUH-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh
NUH-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh

NUH-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh
NUH-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh
NUH-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh
NUH-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh

Batmaaaaaan #

Hawaii Five-Woah?
(say that in an Indian aksent, it's fnuny!)

--
Banazir
miajesbar
Mar. 11th, 2004 03:02 pm (UTC)
Re: Perspective
LOL! *chokes on drink* Sproglet? Actually, I haven't seen any of TOS. The first real exposure I got came through Star Trek: Generations. Which wasn't that great of a movie anyway (First Contact was much better!), because all I felt they were trying to do in Generations was throw a last-ditch attempt to lure the stickler TOS fans over to TNG and like, "unite" the two or something. Didn't work very well.

And I can barely stand to look at some of the costumes/hairstyles on the TNG show, at least in the early seasons. I hate retro. And I really don't know how I'd be able to handle ST shot in the 60's....

And I was 6 when Best of Both Worlds, Part 1 aired. I was 7 when part 2 aired. :) I was almost 11 when the TNG series finale aired. :) Which means I was 4 when TNG started, 9 when DS9 started, and 11 when Voyager started. (And now for some reason I have this really strange desire to watch all of DS9, though I don't really like it.)

Yiiieeesh. I do feel young! Keep in mind I never really saw half these shows til my teen years, so it seems weird that I was really that age when they started airing. :)
banazir
Mar. 11th, 2004 05:34 pm (UTC)
Re: Perspective
LOL! *chokes on drink* Sproglet?
Yee, sproglet! Kidlet, lilleun, wee-ling...

Actually, I haven't seen any of TOS. The first real exposure I got came through Star Trek: Generations.
"He's James T. Kirk. Don't you read your history?"

Which wasn't that great of a movie anyway (First Contact was much better!), because all I felt they were trying to do in Generations was throw a last-ditch attempt to lure the stickler TOS fans over to TNG and like, "unite" the two or something. Didn't work very well.
W00t!
I did like First Contact much better.

And I can barely stand to look at some of the costumes/hairstyles on the TNG show, at least in the early seasons. I hate retro. And I really don't know how I'd be able to handle ST shot in the 60's....
Heh, you know you've rounded the hill, when 1987 is "retro".
Yoikes!

And I was 6 when Best of Both Worlds, Part 1 aired. I was 7 when part 2 aired. :)
# Sunrise, sunset #
# Sunrise, sunset #
:-D

I was almost 11 when the TNG series finale aired. :)
"All Good Things"?
Oh, goodness.
You and yodge are wee grils!

Which means I was 4 when TNG started, 9 when DS9 started, and 11 when Voyager started. (And now for some reason I have this really strange desire to watch all of DS9, though I don't really like it.)
LOL!
11 when Voyager started...
That was a short Ocompan lifetime ago!

Yiiieeesh. I do feel young! Keep in mind I never really saw half these shows til my teen years, so it seems weird that I was really that age when they started airing. :)
Heh, do you realize how many jealous readers of my LJ are seeing this now? ;-)

--
Banazir
Re: Perspective - miajesbar - Mar. 14th, 2004 01:12 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - yodge - Mar. 14th, 2004 09:44 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - miajesbar - Mar. 14th, 2004 11:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - banazir - Mar. 17th, 2004 01:21 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: Perspective - miajesbar - Mar. 14th, 2004 11:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - banazir - Mar. 17th, 2004 01:13 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - banazir - Mar. 14th, 2004 10:36 am (UTC) - Expand
marm
Mar. 13th, 2004 05:11 pm (UTC)
Re: Perspective
Wauh! You're making me feel old.

At least I was youngish when TNG started. When DS9 premiered I was in high school. The history teacher made a special point to ask me what I had thought of it (becuase I was the only fannish kid in the school, and apparently that makes me a great eccentric. Yes, things sucked before the Internet).
Re: Perspective - banazir - Mar. 13th, 2004 07:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Perspective - miajesbar - Mar. 14th, 2004 01:15 am (UTC) - Expand
Next on BanaBlog - banazir - Mar. 14th, 2004 09:32 am (UTC) - Expand
f00dave
Mar. 11th, 2004 02:17 pm (UTC)
I don't think ANYTHING can top (bottom?) Skin of Evil. Except perhaps the one where they regenerated Troi from a strand of hair (or whatever the fuck it was: it pissed me off, anyway, like when they broke a Space Vampire Crystal and she magically un-aged, white hair and all).

No need to get me started on that, though. ;-)
banazir
Mar. 11th, 2004 05:00 pm (UTC)
Implausible ST:TNG tripe
[Space Vampire Crystal]
The Picture of Dorian Gray ep, we called it.
I hated that one.

Skin of eViol had the marmite golem!

I don't remember regenerated Troi - do you mean Pulaski?

Some of the best ST:TNG was implausible, though!
"Galaxy's Child" (the baby space-dweller), "Tin Man" (the one with Brad Dourif as the Betazoid who bonded to the living ship)...

And how about "Evolution" (nanites) and the "wet sand" ep?

--
Banazir
f00dave
Mar. 11th, 2004 09:08 pm (UTC)
Re: Implausible ST:TNG tripe
Marmite Golem == Good Stuff. The rest licked it, though.

Tin Man was a cool Data ep, yes it was Pull-my-ASCII, I didn't see anything about babies, nanites fucking rock, and I don't think I've heard of Wet Sand...
banazir
Mar. 11th, 2004 09:32 pm (UTC)
Re: Implausible ST:TNG tripe
Marmite Golem == Good Stuff.
The rest licked it, though.

Ewwww, lick a marmite golem?!
Eyucj!

Tin Man was a cool Data ep, yes it was Pull-my-ASCII, I didn't see anything about babies, nanites fucking rock, and I don't think I've heard of Wet Sand...
Babies: remember the one where Picard has to order the Big E to fire on a spacefaring creature that looks like a giant ship? It turns out to have been pregnant, and they killed it. Crusher and LaForge (IIRC) figure out how to rig a C-section with the Ent's phasers, and this baby ship pops out. It starts suckling on the Ent's power systems and they have to "sour the milk" by changing the amplitude of the current or somesuch. Finally they deliver it to a tribe of its fellows in some nebula. Geordi eventually relates this trick to Scotty in "Relics".

Wet Sand: ugly bag of mostly water! ("Home Soil", S1)

--
Banazir
Re: Implausible ST:TNG tripe - f00dave - Mar. 12th, 2004 04:59 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Implausible ST:TNG tripe - banazir - Mar. 13th, 2004 12:52 am (UTC) - Expand
gondhir
Mar. 12th, 2004 07:58 am (UTC)
The "worst" one has to be the Voyager ep when Janeway and Paris "evolved" into salamanders. It's things like this that make me unsurprised when people completely don't understand evolution.

On a somewhat related note, I just rewatched "Die Another Day" yesterday which featured a handheld weapon that electrocuted people. Of course, it had lightening bolts bzzting around the victim like they were getting zapped by a Sith Lord. Which never actually happens IRL. IRL, if you're getting electrocuted from contact with a high voltage source, chances are you'll look pretty much normal except that you'll be flailing around and/or frozen by the flexing of your muscles. And yet every movie/TV depiction of electrocution utilizes lightening bolts bzzting around the body. Isn't that some kind of public safety disservice to society by teaching people that that's what electrocution looks like? People aren't going to know what's happening when something REALLY happens!
othercriteria
Mar. 12th, 2004 10:25 am (UTC)
Threshold.
Aye, that was a loathsome episode. The whole salamander-evolution thing was only the tip of the iceberg. Part of the premise was Warp 10 movement, i.e., being everywhere in the universe at once, which raises interesting questions about what happens when you're in the core of a star and how in hell you get back near to where you started (interesting probability problem). Under this was a hateful subtext about medical ethics and scientific discovery that nearly made me retch from its banality. And all the officers were so damn smarmy.
banazir
Mar. 12th, 2004 10:02 pm (UTC)
Re: Threshold.
Aye, that was a loathsome episode. The whole salamander-evolution thing was only the tip of the iceberg.
Thankfully, I never saw this one.
I heard they made lots of salamander bebes?

Part of the premise was Warp 10 movement, i.e., being everywhere in the universe at once, which raises interesting questions about what happens when you're in the core of a star and how in hell you get back near to where you started (interesting probability problem).

Under this was a hateful subtext about medical ethics and scientific discovery that nearly made me retch from its banality.
Eh? Could you please specify?

And all the officers were so damn smarmy.
Want smarmy? Try DS9.

My least favorite eps were "Unforgettable" (full of non-sequiturs) and that stupid episode with the out-of-phase scientists hopping Janeway up on serotonin. I did roll in the aisles at "you're going to be around to collect the final data!" I think that should be played before Ph.D. dissertation defenses everywhere.

--
Banazir
Re: Threshold. - miajesbar - Mar. 14th, 2004 01:06 am (UTC) - Expand
Evil Grils in my LJ - banazir - Mar. 14th, 2004 09:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Evil Grils in my LJ - miajesbar - Mar. 15th, 2004 12:01 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Evil Grils in my LJ - banazir - Mar. 15th, 2004 01:46 am (UTC) - Expand
banazir
Mar. 13th, 2004 02:04 am (UTC)
TASERs and realism, or, Show Me The Force Bolts
People aren't going to know what's happening when something REALLY happens!
Yeah, seriously!
And what about evisceration?
I don't think one can shout Frreeeeeeeeedoooooooom so well without one's colon. Well, maybe George Carlin can, but how about someone who just got the athame-and-brunning treatment, hrmm?

--
Banazir
( 63 comments — Leave a comment )

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