?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Spiritually, ecumenically, grammatically

This eveningmorning's film (finished at 0200):
Pirates of the Caribbean

Fun stuff!
Whole trasking lot of eyeliner.
Nicely choreographed swordplay and foot work. Cool special effects.
Still not clear why the rum is gone. (I think some grils just like to brun struff.)

Did Captain Jack Sparrow have the curse all along, or did he just incur it when Barbossa stabbed him?
If he had it all along, what made Barbossa think he didn't have it? Just that he marooned him before taking the treasure?
Edit: Ah, thanks, nobuddy69, spoothbrush, and wiliqueen. I get it now - I saw him play with the coins and apparently nick one; I was just not expecting him to use it to acquire invulnerability.


Twelfth Day of Christmas, following my personal LJ tradition (started in 2003):
The Holly And The Ivy [ lyrics | MIDI ] - modern lyrics by Cecil Sharp, English Folk Carols (1911); original version attributed to pagan authorship

--
Banazir

Comments

( 25 comments — Leave a comment )
spoothbrush
Jan. 5th, 2005 08:31 pm (UTC)
I just saw this movie a few days ago. I *think* that Jack only got the curse when he took a piece of the gold out of the stash and kept it -- before then, he didn't have it, because he'd been marooned before they got into it.
banazir
Jan. 5th, 2005 08:53 pm (UTC)
Gold piece
*nod* So nobuddy69 just explained.

I saw him playing with the pieces and figured he had taken one, but I was expecting a plot twist where Barbossa bled Will and thought he had broken the curse, but hadn't.

--
Banazir
wiliqueen
Jan. 5th, 2005 08:32 pm (UTC)
Did Captain Jack Sparrow have the curse all along, or did he just incur it when Barbossa stabbed him?

Neither. He picks up a piece of the gold during the sequence in the cave, thus bringing the curse on himself at the eleventh hour, as it were. (Can't remember atm exactly when he does it, or indeed even whether we actually see him doing so or just have a good idea of when he had the opportunity.) He twirls it through his bony little fingers and flashes it at Barbossa after he staggers into the moonlight. Which you probably saw, but no, he didn't have it all along.

What I still want to know, however, is how he survived the curse being lifted. ;-)
spoothbrush
Jan. 5th, 2005 08:45 pm (UTC)
Well, you see him picking up a handful of gold pieces and then letting them trickle back into the chest. It's vaguely apparent, if you're paying attention for that sort of thing, that he's palmed one... I have no idea why I was alert to it, but there you go.
banazir
Jan. 5th, 2005 08:51 pm (UTC)
Oh, yes
Funny thing is, I knew he palmed one, but (a) it didn't occur to me that the curse would fall on him instantly and (b) I never saw him flashing it. I'm just dense that way. :-P

For some reason I was expecting him to use a delay in the breaking of the curse rather than the power of the curse. (e.g., palm one, let them think the curse is unbreakable, go on a rampage, then toss it back in and shoot Barbossa while his guard is down. As it happeened, that was close to it, but he needed the curse to survive the melodramatic little duel. :-))

--
Banazir
wiliqueen
Jan. 5th, 2005 08:59 pm (UTC)
That's what it is. I knew it was something like that, but it's been several months since I watched it.
banazir
Jan. 5th, 2005 09:04 pm (UTC)
Post-credits scene
Hey, did I remember correctly that there is a scene after the end credits? If so, I have to go back and watch before I return this.

--
Banazir
wiliqueen
Jan. 5th, 2005 09:30 pm (UTC)
Re: Post-credits scene
There's something there, yup.
finabair
Jan. 6th, 2005 12:50 am (UTC)
I have no idea why I was alert to it, but there you go.

Sadly, it's been months since I saw the movie and I can tell you why you're alert to it; I'm not sure of exact numbers but this is the sequence: He holds out his hand showing 4 gold pieces, trickles three of them back in (noisily, so we subconsciously 'count' them), then he does that "just did magic" flick of his hands and shows them empty, which gesture we've all been trained since childhood to interpret as, "I made it disappear!"
banazir
Jan. 5th, 2005 08:46 pm (UTC)
Neither. He picks up a piece of the gold during the sequence in the cave, thus bringing the curse on himself at the eleventh hour, as it were.
:nod: Wasn't thinking along the "curse == invulnerabiity" lines. Clever trick.

(Can't remember atm exactly when he does it, or indeed even whether we actually see him doing so or just have a good idea of when he had the opportunity.) He twirls it through his bony little fingers and flashes it at Barbossa after he staggers into the moonlight. Which you probably saw, but no, he didn't have it all along.
Ah, that's what it was! D'oh. I wondered what he meant by "couldn't resist". I'm a little thick when it comes to spotting quick little things like that. :-P

Was trying to get to bed at a reasonable hour because I thought there'd be a meeting today. What do you know, it was rescheduled before Christmas! D'oh, that'll teach me. ;-)

What I still want to know, however, is how he survived the curse being lifted. ;-)
OK, I wondered that, too. Did all of his crew drop dead? I thought it was only the few killed in the skirmish with Port Royale's guards. The one with the glass eye and several others seemed to surrender.

IIRC, Will only dropped the last blood-moistened coin into the pile after Sparrow shot Barbossa. I just figured the curse was lifted as soon as he bled on it, or maybe there was a time delay. At any rate, Barbossa didn't run him through again toward the end, that I saw.

--
Banazir
wiliqueen
Jan. 5th, 2005 09:03 pm (UTC)
OK, I wondered that, too. Did all of his crew drop dead?

It's a little on the hand-wavey side. It seemed like some who incurred their wounds while the curse was still on started bleeding and dropping when it was broken, while others who had been severely injured earlier seemed fine.

It's possible that only those wounds inflicted within a certain amount of time before the curse was broken stayed, but if so it was a pretty short amount of time to apply to Jack. :-)

It's also possible that it really is only the wounds that actually happened after the curse was broken, and they just didn't realize it until they started dropping. That makes the most logistical sense for the curse, but isn't entirely consistent with the timing as the movie is edited. I suspect it's probably the intent, tho.
sui_degeneris
Jan. 6th, 2005 02:36 am (UTC)
My sense of it was...
...that if the injury was still "current" (if the sword was still lodged between the ribs, for example) when the pirate was uncursed, then the injury would carry over, and be as damaging as if it had been inflicted on a non-cursed person.

If the injury had been "healed" (if a cursed pirate had removed the sword between his ribs before the curse was broken), then he would have been uninjured when uncursed.

Which leads me to two conclusions:

1. Barbossa sealed his own fate by stopping to gloat over Jack's apparent stupidity. Remember, there was a delay before Will dropped the coins. If Barbossa had moved into the moonlight during that time and let the bullet fall out of his skeletal form, he would have survived the breaking of the curse.

2. Will committed patricide. Bootstrap Bill was down at the bottom of the sea, but as we saw, those cursed pirates can survive quite nicely under water. When Will dropped his father's coin coated with his own blood, and broke the curse, his father became mortal again. And died.

Unless, of course, Bootstrap had managed to escape from the bottom of the sea in the intervening 10 years. At which point, he was uncursed like everyone else and is now mortal. (And free, since he wasn't arrested with the rest of the Black Pearl's cursed crew.) And we'll likely see him in the next PotC film.
spoothbrush
Jan. 6th, 2005 05:08 am (UTC)
Re: My sense of it was...
Question: If a cursed pirate is in the moonlight and is dismembered and separated into widely dispersed skeletal bits, is the pirate still alive? I was wondering.
sui_degeneris
Jan. 6th, 2005 11:34 am (UTC)
Well, considering that...
...Governor Swann hacked a CursedPirate's (moonlit/skeletal) arm off, and then spent the rest of the scene trying to keep it from attacking him, I'd say yes. The bits are alive (or undead, anyway), and if they are rejoined to the rest of the body parts, they should be fine.

Now, if the curse is broken and the pirate is dismembered-and-still-missing-a-few-vital-bits, he won't survive long. But as long as the curse holds, the pirate cannot die. No matter how far flung his body parts are.
kaladhwen
Jan. 8th, 2005 02:47 am (UTC)
Re: My sense of it was...
With the agility that we saw the pirates-as-skeletons had underwater, I highly doubt that his dad was stuck at the bottom of the sea for ten years and did nothing about it. I'm pretty sure he got out and was just hiding. Though that's just my theory cause I want to see him in the next film. ;)
sui_degeneris
Jan. 9th, 2005 11:38 pm (UTC)
Re: My sense of it was...
It's a good theory. And frankly, no matter how crushing the depths, if anything that could move and and grip was intact (say a hand or a jaw), that part could then pick at/gnaw at the bindings, reassemble the parts, and get the whole out of there.

I think it would be really cool to have Bootstrap in a sequel. Trying to figure out who they might get to play him, since Will is supposed to be his spitting image. Mmmmm... More eye candy!
kaladhwen
Jan. 9th, 2005 11:47 pm (UTC)
Re: My sense of it was...
And frankly, no matter how crushing the depths, if anything that could move and and grip was intact (say a hand or a jaw), that part could then pick at/gnaw at the bindings, reassemble the parts, and get the whole out of there.

*nods* Exactly.

As for who to play him...good question! I think I heard that Jack's father will be in it, though I could be wrong. Either way, should be very very interesting.
(Deleted comment)
wiliqueen
Jan. 8th, 2005 03:03 pm (UTC)
Re: The plot thickens
*nods* That's how I figure it's supposed to be. Whether they edited it that way is slightly fuzzy. After backing it up and watching it about a gazillion times, I finally came to the conclusion that the last piece is replaced in the chest at the same time the shot hits Barbossa. That, I can live with.
sui_degeneris
Jan. 10th, 2005 12:38 am (UTC)
Re: The plot thickens
I don't share that conclusion.

Barbossa says that Jack has wasted his shot (implying that Jack shot and hit Barbossa while Barbossa was under the curse), before Will drops the coins into the chest.
sui_degeneris
Jan. 10th, 2005 12:36 am (UTC)
Re: The plot thickens
There was only one pistol shot that I heard, and it was before Will dropped the (bloody) coins into the chest.
twinbee
Jan. 5th, 2005 08:48 pm (UTC)
I have many of the traditional English carols in mp3, if you would like them.
banazir
Jan. 5th, 2005 09:03 pm (UTC)
Merci beaucoup
Thanks! That'd be good - I'll talk to you in a bit.

--
Banazir
sui_degeneris
Jan. 6th, 2005 02:47 am (UTC)
Love love love the swordplay!
Not sure which one of Jack Sparrow's fights I like better:

The highly stylized dance with Will? Loved everything about it. The footwork, the banter, the way the clang of the swords matched the music. Okay, the cocoa powder was a bit odd. But hey, if the only thing I can complain about is that Orlando Bloom prolly shouldn't have smelled like CHOKLIT, I should shut up right now.

The less stylized, more over-the-top fight with Barbossa? The slash-and-hack choreography, the play of light and shadow, and the resulting mosaic of skeleton and flesh?

Can't tell. Love 'em both.

That film is such eye candy. Yum!
banazir
Jan. 6th, 2005 03:19 am (UTC)
Re: Love love love the swordplay!
All true.
Looking forward to PoTC II (2006)... nobuddy69 tells me there is a Chonese pirate?

--
Banazir
kaladhwen
Jan. 8th, 2005 03:02 am (UTC)
Did Captain Jack Sparrow have the curse all along, or did he just incur it when Barbossa stabbed him?
If he had it all along, what made Barbossa think he didn't have it? Just that he marooned him before taking the treasure?
Edit: Ah, thanks, nobuddy69, spoothbrush, and wiliqueen. I get it now - I saw him play with the coins and apparently nick one; I was just not expecting him to use it to acquire invulnerability.


*shakes head* You still weren't watching, were you! I know everyone else already replied and stuff but yeah. As for expecting him to use the coin to acquire invulnerability, as you put it, he has no choice in the matter. He takes the coin, he's therefore cursed and is immortal. Not sure why else he would take the coin unless:

I believe he took the coin as a sort of bargaining chip. 1) He has insurance in case fighting Barbossa or whoever goes sour (as it did and he got stabbed though sometimes I half wonder if Jack did that on purpose just to see what it was like). 2) He's in control of when the curse is lifted once and for all in case it comes in handy in controlling the pirates. (Say they really did try to kill Will and he could say it won't matter if you do, the curse will still be there.) I think he was trying to be sure and wait until all the pirates were engaged fighting the British guards and...it would also make Barbossa lazy in his fighting. Jack's goal was to not only get revenge on the pirates but to kill Barbossa himself. If Barbossa went out against the guards or was arrested that would never happen. So, Jack has a coin to make sure the curse can't be broken until he's READY for it to be broken, i.e. when he shoots Barbossa, and Will is also at the chest ready to drop his own coin in.

Though I need to watch it again, because trying to figure out what Jack is thinking throughout all of that makes my head spin. He's always got a plan, a back-up plan, which is important to remember.

As for the pirates dying -- I think they only died if they had received a mortal wound after, but also right before the curse was lifted -- like that huge black pirate (had a sword in him, we see him drop), and Barbossa -- had just been shot by Jack and the bullet was still in his heart when Will dropped the coins.

Gah. I need to go watch it again. And finish writing my own sequel and see how close it is to Disney's. ;)

Glad you enjoyed, though - You need to watch!!! And stop chatting when you're watching movies! :) If there's an IM that I have to answer I pause whatever I'm watching. Take a break from helping your students and watch a movie. ;)
( 25 comments — Leave a comment )

Latest Month

December 2008
S M T W T F S
 123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
28293031   

KSU Genetic and Evolutionary Computation (GEC) Lab

Teunciness

Breakfast

Science, Technology, Engineering, Math (STEM) Communities

Fresh Pages

Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com
Designed by Naoto Kishi