Yes, just so.

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Banazir

for a first class on discrete math they should implement RSA in SML?

that sounds rather severe...

Are you sure we are talking about the same class? Not intro to data structures, but the class before that, the one that doesn't even have a programming requirement?

In that case, that's mad hardcorez!!!

... though perhaps a bit shallow? How much in the way of algorithms and deduction can you actually cover in a semester? Or is it just propositional (modus ponens, modus tollens, contrapositive) and "the flavor" of first-order (i.e., quantifiers, but no model theory, possible worlds semantics, resolution, sequent rules for FOPC, etc.)?

Graph theory and graph algorithms are easily semester-long courses by themselves, while the definitions and basic properties of graphs can be covered in 2-3 weeks.

What is meant by "mathematical reasoning" and "combinatorial reasoning"? Any particular proof methodology or counting techniques?

Here's why I asked this question: our discrete mathematical structures course is Math 510. Technically, this is an "upper division course" required for graduation, not a tech elective, but it is taught like a tech elective: combinatorics, generating functions, even a little modern algebra (abstract algebra: rings, fields, groups). It's supposed to be a second-year course, but no one does, and the Math department doesn't even let sophomores register for it unless there is no waiting list (which ther always is). We have students who take it in the senior year.

This has been nothing short of disastrous for our upper-level curriculum: we have people coming into the relational databases course, the AI course, and the programming languages courses without a clear understanding of one-to-one/onto/bijective functions, the definitions of relations and functions, and fundamental axiomatic set theory. The very important nuances of propositional logic as it relates to the algebra of sets are lost on many.

As a result, I've proposed that we reform the curriculum to make Discrete Mathematical Structures into a lower-level course, say Math 310, and require it by the fourth semester at the latest. A sharp first-year student with sophomore standing should be able to take it in the spring (second semester) and earn an 'A'. Nobody should be able to register for Database Systems or Intro AI without it, much less Analysis of Algorithms (which I think requires it). I'm going to recommend that it become our gateway math course, named as a prerequisite for CIS 505 (our intro programming languages course) and CIS 570 (our automata theory and formal languages course) and perhaps for other courses, too.

Thanks,
Banazir

Oh, and of course asymptotic notations and definitions, including O,o,Omega,omega,Theta

Here is an explanation for my query. I'll follow up in a couple of days.

Thanks again,
Banazir

Oh, yes. At Hopkins we had a course 600.140 (Programming Techniques) between 600.108 (Intro to Programming in Pascal, later C++) and 600.327 (Data Structures, later 600.227). It was taught using Abelson, Sussman, and Sussman (first edition at the time), and often taken concurrently with 600.118 (Intermediate Programming in a Unix Environment).

So you see, we had two programming-intensive courses between CS1 and Data Structures. IMO this is a good thing. I actually took a third one (600.119 IIRC, Intermediate Programming in C++) as senior, because I didn't know C++. My advisor, Steve Salzberg (who later became Ventner's hire as bioinformatics director of TIGR and one of the HGP principals), said I'd be bored. I got together with three of my classmates - two seniors and one sophomore (Jeremy Elson, author of CircleMUD) - and we made it our capstone project in software engineering (we didn't have an official one at the time, so it was craft-your-own-program in a sort of liberal arts style after 2 years). I wasn't the least bit bored.

Here is an explanation for why I asked. At K-State we go from CS1 (CIS 200) to Data Structures (CIS 300) and Logic for Computer Science (CIS 301). The theoretical foundation is firm, or would be, if there was a programming-inetnsive foundation to go with it.

I'll follow up in a couple of days.

Thanks for your cogent comment,
Banazir

Oh, certainly, be my guest. I've added you back.

Sorry I haven't responded - things have been hectic.
I do watch Sci-Fi Friday every week, but sometimes it takes me 3-4 days to get up-to-date.

Huh, and I just remembered that I forgot to tape the rerun of BSG. I was about 20 minutes short (2:40 instead of 3:00) and missed taping the ending. I saw that Kara met up with Anders again, and that Baltar managed to score some points on Roslin, but what happened at the very end?

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Banazir

Here is an explanation for why I asked, with additional commentary here and here. I'll summarize this thread and the rationale for my suggested improvements within a few days.

Thanks again,
Banazir