?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Spoilage and Thwappage

Spoil Nice Books Author Wrote for You!
jereeza had this to say about book spoilers:

Been on the phone with Stavavali for almost three hours last night, and at some point we both bitched about the difficulty of explaining people why we (Okeata does this too) judge a book worth reading by its ending. As Stavavali said, (phrasing from memory):

When you go through (a book, film, etc.) without knowing the ending, you can only wait for things to happen. Only if you know the whole story can you really enjoy it.


To which gondhir and I rebutted:

gondhir: Yes, but you can only read it without knowing the ending once.

banazir: True, but I think jereeza means that even that one time has less utility than knowing the ending the first time.

My dad has the same philosophy - drives me and my mom nuts, though she and I are both spoiler-neutral in most contexts (my mom more so than me).

What I'm curious to know is whether you all actually "don't bother" to finish a book or film in a lot of cases. I do that from trailers (in fact, I'm quite discriminating, having watched less than 20% as many films as hempknight). My dad, OTOH, managed to avoid The Hobbit for over a decade (1986-1999) and The Lord of The Rings for a similar period of time (1995-2001) on the basis that their endings were boring.

So, my argument is: how can you invest in characters without knowing more than the gist of what they do? You have to have motivation and intent, and sometimes characterization beyond that, nesupasu? Otherwise we could all read the Cliffs' Notes of Scions of Shannara and The Belgariad (some might argue that we could anyway).



In related news: Please welcome jereeza's bane, hempknight, into the LJ fold and into my friends list. Another EUNCy person who friended me yesterday was figgylicious, narvi's friend whom we've heard so many good things about.

Shall we dance in honor of these new friends?
Let's see...

[21:48:15] masteralida: (dancing good :))
[21:48:15] darana: (DANCE Floor in here)
[21:48:25] banazir (dance dance revolution?)
[21:48:38] masteralida: (don't make me hit you, Banazir....)
[21:48:53] ldymlissa: (awww... go ahead induct him into the hall of thwaps)
[21:49:05] darana: (LOL)
[21:49:06] queenmidalah: (I thought she already had?)
[21:49:11] darana: ::thwaps banazir::
[21:49:13] masteralida: LOL
[21:49:21] darana: general principle.
[21:49:23] queenmidalah: Okay so darana did it for her... LOL!
[21:49:30] darana: :-D
[21:49:33] deire: "I christen thee Sir Banazir." [where's that icon, celandineb?]
[21:49:40] queenmidalah: LMAO!
[21:49:44] banazir: LOL
[21:49:56] ldymlissa: and he's officially inducted. welcome.
[21:50:02] banazir: Thank you!
[21:50:15] banazir: zhao4 fan3 yiu3 li3!
[21:50:26] banazir: (In revolt is right)
[21:50:37] banazir: gu2 ming4 wu2 zui4!
[21:50:43] darana: lol
[21:50:44] banazir: (Revolution is blameless)
[21:51:02] masteralida: (someone dance already! Before Banazir gets thwapped again)

Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you!
Accepted into the FoE fold... the circlemy life is now complete!

As Yowie says, the frist time is always special.
The first thwap is the deepest...

--
Banazîr

Comments

( 41 comments — Leave a comment )
octaviakrysk
Jan. 24th, 2004 01:07 pm (UTC)
welcome to the world of slaps... and thwaps and more to come...

banazir
Jan. 24th, 2004 05:36 pm (UTC)
Stay tuned for more thwappage
Hi Ginna!

welcome to the world of slaps... and thwaps and more to come...
Promises, promises...
Did I say that out loud?

--
Banazir
hempknight
Jan. 24th, 2004 01:25 pm (UTC)
What I'm curious to know is whether you all actually "don't bother" to finish a book or film in a lot of cases.

I think you're missing the point of what jereeza meant. If you know the things which will happen doesn't make you "don't bother" but quite the opposite; it makes it more enjoyable.

Having seen far more movies than I've read books I'll you give a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Take for instance that scene from Jaws where Brody is throwing bait off the boat and Bruce suddenly surfaces. The reaction to the shark is one of the finest pieces of acting and one must admire Scheider here. Then he slowly backs away to Quint and utters the immortal line "You're gonna need a bigger boat!".

When you see that for the first time it's only a scene. Only when you know when what is coming (they will need a bigger boat) you can truly enjoy the whole deal there. I must have seen Jaws about 30 times so far and each time I get all giddy when that scene is about to come, because of the fact I know what's coming. And each time I see something new.

having watched less than 20% as many films as hempknight).

Number of movies I've graded on Imdb (read: I remember having seen and remember the name of) is currently at 1321. Which is much lower than the actual number, mind you.

I 0WnZ U

--
Danger is my middle name
banazir
Jan. 25th, 2004 05:27 am (UTC)
Films and surprises
I think you're missing the point of what jereeza meant. If you know the things which will happen doesn't make you "don't bother" but quite the opposite; it makes it more enjoyable.
Yes, I got that from her follow-up.
I don't think it always makes things more enjoyable.
I enjoyed Return of The Jedi for having read the Zahn novelization, but I enjoyed Attack of the Clones more going in blind. I would have disliked PJ's LOTR films if I hadn't read the books, but I would have been indifferent to Interview with The Vampire if I hadn't read the books. I'm considering watching the Harry Potter films before I read the books.

Having seen far more movies than I've read books I'll you give a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Sorry, I've only seen Jaws once.

Number of movies I've graded on Imdb (read: I remember having seen and remember the name of) is currently at 1321. Which is much lower than the actual number, mind you.
I 0WnZ U

I'm assuming your true number is close to 2000 and mine is close to 500. Dunno about 0wnz0ring.

--
Banazir
Re: Films and surprises - hempknight - Jan. 25th, 2004 10:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Films and surprises - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 06:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Films and surprises - hempknight - Jan. 25th, 2004 07:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
Hobbit rentals - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 09:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: Thank you! - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 05:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
csn
Jan. 24th, 2004 01:51 pm (UTC)
you're a prof. at a university, aren't you?? BUt I haven't seen you write anything about this so far. I think of some of my profs having an LJ and I just think that's the most bizarre thing ever..
banazir
Jan. 24th, 2004 06:19 pm (UTC)
University professors and blogging
Eh wot?
I wrote about deciding to become a CS professor in the post where I welcomed you, and more recently here. Just before you arrived I was talking about my students, and this past week I've been talking about tenure-trask with hfx_ben in a thread in an old post (of course, I realize that no one but hfx_ben and I are going to know to look there).
I like to think I cleared those preliminaries in my first entry, though. :-D

I'll dig some other salient links out of my exported XML. Look around the end of October/beginning of November for a huge academic conference travellogue and the beginning of December. Oh, and I still haven't finished my travellogue from IJCAI-2003 last August.

I actually cut back on the academic wibble because jereeeza didn't think it was to relate to, so much. Well, people's mileage varies. Thank God for lj-cut.

--
Banazir
Re: University professors and blogging - csn - Jan. 25th, 2004 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - csn - Jan. 25th, 2004 12:22 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 02:15 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - csn - Jan. 25th, 2004 02:23 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 02:28 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - csn - Jan. 25th, 2004 02:23 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 02:38 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - csn - Feb. 13th, 2004 05:13 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - banazir - Feb. 13th, 2004 06:13 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: University professors and blogging - csn - Feb. 13th, 2004 10:57 am (UTC) - Expand
masteralida
Jan. 24th, 2004 02:33 pm (UTC)
You read the ending first? But, how can you know how it relates to the characters and what they went through to reach that point?

I don't mind spoilers, but to me, it's all about the journey, not the ending :)
banazir
Jan. 24th, 2004 05:39 pm (UTC)
Spoilers
You read the ending first?
I usually don't. I'll read a film synopsis that might have spoilers in it, or listen to a friend's recommendation of a film to get an idea what the story is about and whether I may like it. I almost never skip to the last chapter.

But, how can you know how it relates to the characters and what they went through to reach that point?
Exacterly.

I don't mind spoilers, but to me, it's all about the journey, not the ending :)
Same here - but see hempknight's rebuttal.

--
Banazir
Re: Spoilers - hempknight - Jan. 24th, 2004 06:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Spoilers - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 05:06 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: darn - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 05:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: darn (CTHD spoiler warnings) - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 06:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: darn - istari_ala - Jan. 25th, 2004 08:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: darn - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 08:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
figgylicious
Jan. 24th, 2004 06:47 pm (UTC)
*BOW*
Thanks for the dance. I shall now do a happy dance as well! :D
banazir
Jan. 24th, 2004 06:49 pm (UTC)
Duck!
*BOW*
Thanks for the dance. I shall now do a happy dance as well! :D

Watch out for that thwap!!
masteralida and darana are velocithwappers, yernow.

--
Banazir
Re: Duck! - darana - Jan. 24th, 2004 06:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Duck! - banazir - Jan. 24th, 2004 06:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
chevronsha
Jan. 24th, 2004 08:41 pm (UTC)
i knew i shoulda done less lurking and more dancing last night :-(
banazir
Jan. 24th, 2004 09:29 pm (UTC)
Luurjking
i knew i shoulda done less lurking and more dancing last night :-(
Yes!
Let that be a lesson to all luurjkers!

--
Banazir
scionofgrace
Jan. 25th, 2004 01:07 am (UTC)
For the ending thing, I would say I can see both sides. Here's my take on it:

The first read *is* special, because you don't know the ending. Some days I regret having read LotR at such a young age because I can't remember the joy of my first read: it's lost along with so much of my twelfth year of life. Not knowing the ending gives so much tension and involvment with the story.

Thing is, a bad ending can ruin it for me. It's the main reason I don't like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. It's a supremely well-done movie, but the ending is unsatisfying, and therefore I can't engage with the characters on a second view. It's what's driving my crazy about the HP books, because as they continue, it becomes more obvious that they are a single story whose ending we do not yet know. It's why I like LotR so much: I can reengage with the heart of the story and of the characters partially because of the sheer joy of the ending.

Did that make sense?
banazir
Jan. 25th, 2004 02:23 am (UTC)
The Journey and the Destination
For the ending thing, I would say I can see both sides.
Same here.

Here's my take on it:
The first read *is* special, because you don't know the ending. Some days I regret having read LotR at such a young age because I can't remember the joy of my first read: it's lost along with so much of my twelfth year of life. Not knowing the ending gives so much tension and involvment with the story.

That's how I feel. I did have the end of the Ring spoiled - first by the Rankin-Bass film, which I forgot, later by a quick, stupid browse through a Cliff's Notes on LoTR in a Waldenbooks, which I couldn't. I looked up "Gollum" innocuously. (And I didn't even have a book report due!) Oh, well.

Thing is, a bad ending can ruin it for me. It's the main reason I don't like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. It's a supremely well-done movie, but the ending is unsatisfying, and therefore I can't engage with the characters on a second view.
Ah. I had mixed feelings about the ending. What didn't resonate with you? The fates of the protagonists? If so: Li Mu Bai (Chow Yun Fat)? Michelle Yeoh's character? Jen/Xiao Long (Zhang Ziyi)? Xiao Hu (Chang Cheng)?

It's what's driving my crazy about the HP books, because as they continue, it becomes more obvious that they are a single story whose ending we do not yet know.
It's also why I've been putting them off since #3.

It's why I like LotR so much: I can reengage with the heart of the story and of the characters partially because of the sheer joy of the ending.
Just so.

Did that make sense?
Very much so; I think you said it well.
Thanks!

--
Banazir
(Deleted comment)
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - banazir - Jan. 26th, 2004 12:46 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: Yes! - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 06:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: Yes! - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 06:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: Hey! - banazir - Jan. 25th, 2004 06:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
( 41 comments — Leave a comment )

Latest Month

December 2008
S M T W T F S
 123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
28293031   

KSU Genetic and Evolutionary Computation (GEC) Lab

Teunciness

Breakfast

Science, Technology, Engineering, Math (STEM) Communities

Fresh Pages

Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com
Designed by Naoto Kishi